For context, my parents, 83 and 85, both have Alzheimer's, dementia, and memory loss. Their symptoms have increasingly worsened over the last decade. In addition, my father has anxiety, paranoia, and wanders. My mother has high levels of frustration and will hit herself in the head when she becomes agitated. They both have sundowning syndrome, which makes things worse. Their short-term memory is almost non-existent, but long-term memories remain fairly well intact. My father has also been found wandering the streets after midnight wearing nothing more than a Depends. They live in Illinois and have my older brother providing caregiving. (He has already procured legal paperwork (Without really discussing this with other family members) to get a General POA, Medical POA, Trustee, and Executor of the Will. (This is a separate issue I will most likely have to deal with at a later date.) My wife and I live in Virginia and have been unable to travel back to Illinois for 12 years. The issue is that my father has owned many firearms, some passed down from generation to generation. Among them, several shotguns, rifles, and handguns. There are easily more than 10 in total. They are locked in a gun safe in his bedroom with the ammunition. He supposedly retains the key as I have been told. I currently have 3 older brothers, all of whom have felony convictions, one of which may be ending his 30 year sentence in about 10 days to be potentially released. (Another issue I don't need to get into right now). I am retired military and a 100% disabled vet. I have no felony convictions or drug problems. My nephew, who was the primary caregiver for years, violated his felony probation and will be sentenced to prison later this month. No family members, besides myself, have a driver's license. This has led to many missed/cancelled/rescheduled doctor's appointments for my parents. (again, another story there). The only other close family member is a niece who lives not far from them. But she works as a nurse full time and has a family. She also recently within the past 18 months lost her father (my brother), and her father in law, and she has been dealing with that. I have brought this up to her as a concern many times over the past 6 months, and she agrees that the firearms should be removed. It's time to retire the guns and hunting. But has taken no action. I have talked to the police in town and they too agree that the weapons should be removed from the premises and secured. Another issue with this is control of family assets. My brother has stepped in and basically claimed everything as his, taking possession of vehicle titles, taking inventories, and going through every nook and cranny looking for valuables, jewelry, safe combinations, stocks, checks, loose cash, etc. (He too has mental health issues, paranoid delusions, schizophrenia, long-term drug abuse, alcohol abuse, inhalant abuse (huffing canned air), with moderate brain damage and inability to express clear thoughts through communication. He has convinced himself and my parents that others are stealing from them. (My father was also a hoarder and would "collect" anything. American Pickers Frank Fritz had literally been to their home.)So what should the best course of action be?I am not some gun nut. (Yes, I served 22 years in the military, 2 different branches, and have fired many weapons over the years as well as served as unit armorer and range NCO/safety for dozens if not hundreds of quals. But I have never actually owned a firearm. I am literally the most qualified in my family to even own firearms. (not to mention the only one who can legally own one, other than my niece, but I think she wants to keep guns out of her home and away from her young son). These firearms have little to no sentimental value to me, so I am not trying to jump on the inheritance early. I have simply kept distant and expressed no interest in being involved as the family has had their issues. Advice?
Illinois has some radical and restrictive gun laws. I would try to get in touch with the National Rifle Association in Illinois and get their advice and maybe cooperation.
Or you could tell Mom and Dad that the Antiques Roadshow is in town and that you are taking them to have their items appraised. A week later, tell them you received an unbelievable offer, but it will take 60 days for the payment to settle. By then, they will have likely forgotten.😁 🙏
We had a similar situation with my uncle who had schizophrenia. He lived with grandma and he had all of the POA's and was on all of the financial documents.
I think the schizophrenics lawyer, who was in the house, removed the guns at some point. (We also had guns.)
Our family's experience when interacting with a schizophrenic family member is that your hands are tied and there is not much you can do. It is legal to have untreated mental illness in the US.
We were unable to have any pleasant conversations or negotiate at all with the schizophrenic.
I would reinforce that sometimes in life you are in situations in which there is not much you can do.
The bigger problem was that the schizophrenic was unable to maintain the property (even though there was plenty of money.)
Grandma lived to be 99 on the property. My uncle died from Lou Gehrigs 1 month later on the property.
One thing that I've learned since is that schizophrenics average life span is about 15-25 years less than one without schizophrenia. Your parents could realistically outlive your brother.
My mother had to back away from the situation as her brother was so abusive and you could not have a level headed conversation with him.
Sometimes in life we are in situations in which there is not much we can do. You've talked to the local police.
What one or two would he like to keep in the family?
In Illinois there's a state wide group called 'Gun's Saves Lives'. I'm sure there a chapter near him that might be able to ensure they are taken care of legally (sell or donate).
https://www.gunssavelife.com/site-map/contact-info/
Thing is, there isn't much you can do. That's why I hope you won't use any of your resources to try to "solve" these problems for your parents. I hope they have enough if they need to be cared for in a facility as I suspect your brother will go through the assets very quickly. If he has mental illness he will make bad decisions.
Please update us with so we know how it all pans out. When you ask questions here we are always happy to know how things turned out, both on a personal level but also because you are never the only one with these concerns and each situation we hear about adds to the pot of knowledge collected here.
I have read your subsequent replies, and was going to suggest you offer to buy the guns, but you mention you are just getting by.
Perhaps they could be sold to a gun dealer, or as was also mentioned, disabled in some way by removing a crucial piece.
This sounds like a dangerous situation with 2 elderly dementia patients and a mentally unstable felon.
I hope you find a way to resolve that issue before someone gets hurt, and then, keep out of this family drama! You do not need to be a part of it! Your presence, and your involvement will not help your parents or your brothers. They will likely not accept any kind of help from you.
Thank you for your service.
You have found a safe haven on this forum, so keep us posted if you will.
Thank you for your Service!!
In order to qualify for caregivers coming to the house for free through a VA program there could be no firearms in the house.
Her brother was angry when he got back to his house but the firearms had been removed.
Sometimes you have to do the unethical not legal thing.
I see no good options here aside from reporting this situation to APS and the police. Repeatedly. Especially if your other brother will be returning soon, adding another felon to the mix where they are not supposed to be around firearms. Not judging anyone, just pointing out things to mention to the authorities.
"In Illinois, there is a legal mechanism specifically designed for this situation, and it can result in police removing the firearms even if your father refuses.
The two most relevant paths are FOID revocation / Clear and Present Danger reporting and a Firearms Restraining Order (Illinois’ version of a red-flag law).
1. Illinois Firearms Restraining Order (FRO) – Fastest Way
Illinois allows a Firearms Restraining Order under the Illinois Firearms Restraining Order Act.
This allows a judge to order police to remove firearms from someone who poses a danger to themselves or others.
Who can file:
Family members
Household members
Law enforcement
You do not need your father’s permission.
What the judge considers Evidence such as:
Dementia diagnosis
Paranoia or delusions
Unsafe behavior
Threats or fear of harm
Access to firearms
What happens if granted
Police will:
Serve the order
Seize the firearms
Remove the FOID card
Store the weapons
Emergency orders can be issued within 24 hours without the person present.
2. “Clear and Present Danger” Report (Very Common in Illinois)
Illinois has a mental-health firearm reporting system tied to the Illinois State Police and the Firearm Owner's Identification Card Act.
If someone reports that a gun owner is a “clear and present danger,” the state police can:
Revoke the FOID card
Require surrender of firearms
Reports can be made by:
Family members
Doctors
Police
Therapists
Social workers
Once the FOID is revoked, the firearms must legally be removed from the home.
3. Adult Protective Services (Strongly Recommended)
Because both parents have dementia, you can contact Illinois Adult Protective Services.
APS can:
Investigate the caregiving situation
Evaluate safety risks
Work with police to remove firearms
Evaluate whether the caregiver is appropriate. This is particularly important because:
The brother is a felon.
Under Illinois law, a felon cannot possess firearms or ammunition.
If he has access to the safe or control of the guns, law enforcement may treat that as illegal possession.
4. Police Welfare Check
You can also call the local police department or sheriff where they live and explain:
Both parents have dementia and paranoia
There are multiple firearms
A felon caregiver lives in the home
Police can document the situation and sometimes initiate the restraining order themselves."
Do you know if your dad has a valid FOID?
The Illinois State PD are the ones I would contact to find out how to get these guns legally *** AND SAFELY*** removed from your dad's home. They should also be able to tell you if dad has a current FOID and if so, how to get it revoked.
Bear in mind, if he has these guns illegally, that is, without the proper licensing, then there is the possibility he could be arrested.
Could you contact a detective in the PD and have them monitor him/them and or even ATF.
I'm not sure, just my thoughts on the situation.
I hope you get this figured out.
And just to add im sorry you have to deal with the brother who has POA, he should step up and do the right thing. Family, gotta love em, nope.
I don’t blame your niece for not wanting to be involved, your brothers sound scary .
To be honest , as far as your brother taking over POA etc and brainwashing your parents , it’s very sad , but does happen .
But it’s an expensive battle for guardianship that you could likely lose.
I would call APS and report your parents as vulnerable elders and let them handle it . You could also call your parent’s County Area Agency of Aging.
I commend you in trying to do the right thing regarding the firearms.
I also understand why you have kept a distance from your family . Don’t feel like you have to step in regarding placing your parents because they aren’t going to listen to you anyway. Let the chips fall where they may with that . Let APS and Area Agency of Aging handle it.
There likely won’t be any inheritance anyway. Your brother will have taken it all . You don’t want to be POA in this mess anyway because of the already missing money etc . It would be a nightmare that you don’t want to deal with over the Medicaid lookback.
Your hands are really tied. You have no power . You really can not help your parents. This is a case where APS , a state appointed government guardian who is not family would have a better chance intervening than you would.
The situation is your parents’ own doing for not planning better and not assigning a more responsible person to be their POA etc ahead of time. You can’t fix that . This is on your parents. Unfortunately , not everything can be fixed.
FWIW it sounds like time to move your parents to memory care and sell the home and assets using an estate liquidator, but with brother in charge that's probably a non starter. Unfortunately for all of you.
Also, your parents need to be placed.